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BUGS Swarming our position! Request suppressing fire

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Muttie

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Post Mon May 28, 2018 10:37 pm

Re: BUGS Swarming our position! Request suppressing fire

Daemon wrote:Did you in any point change NumPathNodes setting in f2_res.ini? Values 5 or higher could cause bugs like that.

I've checked. NumPathNodes is on 1.
I also never changed anything, or added anything else (patch/mods etc.). I have a default installation on top of FO2 RP Mod. This is also the second PC, my first one died on me, and both were a normal installation, without any changes made. And both had the same behaviour.
However, I really like the option to run away (I mean why not?). This quest is more about confirming Frederyk's suspicions. Killing Nicol's men or acting openly against her is not necessary (nor does it ever happen (at least with Frederyk)). I think, it is enough to report back and tell Frederyk that it was indeed a trap.
“So karma 0...perhaps?” :wink:


Daemon wrote:First of the three options depends on your charisma.For “please help” option you need decent charisma, for “offering a reward” option you need decent intelligence.

I didn't realize the stats requirements. Thanks, that helps.
But I assume you mean that the options are unlocked by (CH, IN or speech) but then need 91% speech to succeed. Is that correct?
At least I tested it again and it seems as if:

“What are you doing...” always an available option, but needs CH6+ to succeed
“One patient...” needs speech 71% to be offered and succeed
“I heard...” needs to unlock the Vodka dialogue (Penep, Richie, Challenge) and then IN (8 works, 6 doesn't) to be offered and succeed

Any of those three options then leads to the following two options:

“Please help me...” needs speech 71% to be offered and 91% speech to succeed
“Listen I'm willing to reward you...” needs speech 71% to be offered and 91% speech to succeed
(I also tried 81% speech with CH 10 and IN 10 (mentats), and it fails in both cases.)

It was those last two I referred to. And I thought it could be 91% (“Help”) (71% to be offered and 91% speech to succeed) or an offer of 2000 caps (“reward”) (2000 caps to be offered and succeed) instead.

The reason is I consider the Blaster fight a bit of a dead end, as I see little options to beat him. One can do it oneself, there are ways, but if not able to (weak character) the only other options are Gabriel (evil) or Keri (91% speech). And it seems as if the options narrow down so much that it almost feels like a dead end (or speech option only), which is unusual for the mod (normally there are more alternatives).
Or am I missing something? As said I tried a few things (killing the keeper with Dynamite (which is possible), and opening the cell and letting Blaster out, but neither seems to have an effect. As far as I can tell).


Note on waiting
I read the comment by Keri, which reminded me of two scenarios were waiting wasn't optimal:
First, waiting for the reply to Adams letter in Rat Hole. I'm never sure what to do with those 24 hours, other than taking a stroll through the waste. It's OK, but it feels a bit like slowing down the game as there is nothing else to do but waiting (i.e. I can play through the whole of Rat Hole and he's still not done writing (?!, :wink:)). Perhaps reduce it to a few hours only. Not much of a difference, but it could be nice if he is done when one has finished waiting for Katrin's purchase (i.e. a couple of hours only (instead 24) which may help to speed the game up a bit).
The second one is more annoying: Waiting for Chris to finish the Gauss Rifle. The only option is the book, but without it one has to leave the base (2 elevator rides out and 2 back in, which is annoying) only to pass time by walking around the desert (24 hours I think). Which is not optimal, and perhaps adding a “[wait until he's finished]” option in Chris' dialogue (similar to the gravedigger in Corath) could make sense.
I think both could help, but especially the Chris one could be considered.
Otherwise I don't mind taking the stroll or reading a few books (or use Waiting for Love) to pass the time. It's a bit running back and forth sometimes (ring-basement-ring-basement), but usually the routes are short enough to be acceptable.
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Post Sun Jun 03, 2018 10:48 am

Re: BUGS Swarming our position! Request suppressing fire

Muttie wrote:Note on waiting
I read the comment by Keri, which reminded me of two scenarios were waiting wasn't optimal:
First, waiting for the reply to Adams letter in Rat Hole. I'm never sure what to do with those 24 hours, other than taking a stroll through the waste. It's OK, but it feels a bit like slowing down the game as there is nothing else to do but waiting (i.e. I can play through the whole of Rat Hole and he's still not done writing (?!, :wink:)). Perhaps reduce it to a few hours only. Not much of a difference, but it could be nice if he is done when one has finished waiting for Katrin's purchase (i.e. a couple of hours only (instead 24) which may help to speed the game up a bit).
The second one is more annoying: Waiting for Chris to finish the Gauss Rifle. The only option is the book, but without it one has to leave the base (2 elevator rides out and 2 back in, which is annoying) only to pass time by walking around the desert (24 hours I think). Which is not optimal, and perhaps adding a “[wait until he's finished]” option in Chris' dialogue (similar to the gravedigger in Corath) could make sense.
I think both could help, but especially the Chris one could be considered.
Otherwise I don't mind taking the stroll or reading a few books (or use Waiting for Love) to pass the time. It's a bit running back and forth sometimes (ring-basement-ring-basement), but usually the routes are short enough to be acceptable.


Maybe I can offer a solution. Just try to heal your companions or other NPCs 24 times (skill Doctor) or 48 times (First Aid). Better solution, of course, is healing this NPC which is not wounded because your charakter would get tired.
It works regardless of your % in both skills.
I used this solution when my character was on drugs and Gabirel/Lystra/Keri were angry with me.
But I agree with you. Maybe the time in Rath Hole could be lowered.
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Muttie

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Post Sun Jun 03, 2018 11:22 pm

Re: BUGS Swarming our position! Request suppressing fire

That's another option :). Although perhaps rather an emergency solution as “pressing the heal button” 24 or 48 times is quite a lot actually.
Reading “Waiting for Love” 12 times (with IN 9) from a hand slot to pass 24 hours is the maximum of button pushing I'm willing to do :). I sometimes also keep books (first aid, science etc.) for those moments and read them when I have to pass the time (unless I need the points earlier).
Rat Hole is just too early to have books, including “waiting for love”. Then again, it's not a big deal either, there is always the wasteland, it's just a bit of an unnecessary pause.

However, I actually like the feature that resting/healing is "somewhat" disabled. I never liked that option (healing by waiting) in FO. It's just not always optimal in 1.5.
The best thing would be if there would be a waiting option (no heal, like waiting at a train-station, which can be very stressful and exhausting) and a resting option (heal, like at a hotel room (as if it were a doctor)), but I assume that's not easy, or even impossible, to do with FO2.

I think that a character can heal by waiting was never really a good mechanic. Perhaps realistic to some extent (then it becomes unrealistic again). But the option to wait only (to have time related events) may have been better, than combining it with healing.
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Muttie

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Post Thu Jun 28, 2018 10:34 pm

Re: BUGS Swarming our position! Request suppressing fire

ErrorMessage
http://www.filedropper.com/slot291errormessage. When using the crowbar to bust open the brahmin pen there is an error message until the pen is opened.

Muttie wrote:http://www.filedropper.com/slot271blocked2. I submitted this before but this time it's during the Crater quest. A bar guest stands in the door and won't let me through (no push option). This happens fairly regularly as a consequence of “reluctant combat”, (i.e. when I try to kill Clark in the distiller room, while trying to avoid to get into a fight with the other people at the bar (to avoid the karma loss). But it is not a big deal. I can restart combat, land one hit, get the guest to run (which opens the exit), and then end combat again (seems to work rather smoothly). I can also walk up to them before ending combat and they continue to run. Both options only have the risk that companions continue the killing of guests. However, trying solve the quest by killing Clark, but without killing guests (and taking the -10 karma from each) is probably a dumb idea anyway. (There is a 1000 caps and a speech option for that).

I said this doesn't matter that much, as avoiding the karma loss in the fight is not that important (or even intended!). However, I recently played through the casino fight in Lost Town. And there the “inhabitants of Sedit” would run away when I talk to them.
And it occurred to me that could be a neat solution for the Crater fight as well.
Some patrons may be set on attack (like the cop in the casino), for example Clark, Loiz and the guy in the green shirt (perhaps?), but the rest (or all) can be set to “run when talked to”, to have a “push option” in case the player manages to get out of combat.
Eventually they all get removed from the map anyway. So I think that could be a way to solve that “blockage of the door” scenario should it occur.
EDIT: Or even use directly the second phase of the Lost Town fight, i.e. when starting a fight with Clark, the patrons will run away when approaching them (could be atmospheric). I think they already do that when in combat. And a few (like Loiz etc.) could attack instead as does the cop at the casino.

Sheriff Carpenter bug
http://www.filedropper.com/carpentersafe. You can see that Carpenter faces towards the safe. This can happen when using the cook to lure him out of the room and then run into him or stand in his path while in his office. This is in so far important, as it seems much more difficult to reach the safe, when he's standing like that (needs about 81% sneak it seems). And as the cook trick can't be repeated, this would be a tough situation.
(When he faces the desk it starts working with 41% sneak, I would say, or even 19% if treading carefully)
However, this is not a big deal as it only happens to players who mess with “Carpenter's walk” (i.e. when the player waits until the last second to run out of the room and collides with Carpenter.) So this bug is easily avoidable. In fact I'm not even sure it's worth mentioning, other than making players aware of it, and not to cause it.

Missing Gabriel trigger?
I went Gecko-Hunting with the tribe, but when the conclusion came I switched sides (the route was: “collect proof” to “Falber” to “Herman” to “Falber” and then “the attack on the tribe”). When I reported back to Falber I got 10.000 (another time 5000) caps. In both cases Gabriel did not ask for his cut. Is that correct? I mean he does ask for 1000 after attacking the hospital with the tribe, and he should probably ask for more when working for Falber. Is this caused by switching sides? Or does he never ask for a cut when working for Falber?
May check from here http://www.filedropper.com/slot290gabrielreward.
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Muttie

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Post Tue Jul 03, 2018 9:55 pm

Re: BUGS Swarming our position! Request suppressing fire

Muttie wrote:During the Rodriguez quest to face the raiders, I did get 35 points of karma (5 per kill), which put me below -50 and consequently Gabriel left me after that fight. This may need looking into as the Rodriguez quest line working against Gabriel is not optimal. And this is not similar to the first quest were I can solve it peacefully (positive karma) or kill the drunk (negative karma), as in the showdown with the raiders, there is no choice, only combat, (not even staying in the back does work, as it seems I get the points no matter who kills the raiders). I think it may be better if that fight would be karma neutral (i.e. the quest and killing those raiders). Especially as it's not easy to get the karma down to -50, other than skipping New Hope quests. I had to come up with a strategy (graves, ripping up letter etc.) to balance the karma gain from New Hope (I could have gotten more out of the necklace quest perhaps, but, still, it is a bit of a squeeze to pick up Gabriel quickly, and if then going directly in the Rodriguez quest (which can make sense) and running into a chunk of 35 points can be a game stopper. This Karma is also not necessary if accompanied by Lystra (e.g. before that quest one has an option (good/evil) and after it she refuses to help anyway). So I would suggest to consider making these Raiders Karma neutral (i.e. it's dealings among gangsters, and killing gangsters for gangsters, doesn't have to be a good deed). Also if this quest gives +35 Karma, there is basically not much quest line choice in Sedit other than going with Nicol (I think?). Everything else is positive for the most part. EDIT: Well, Lost Town has several negative Options, but still...

I wanted to add that the player also gets +5 karma for every Mexican killed by a Raider, which can make this Rodriguez quest rather Karma intensive.
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Muttie

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Post Mon Jul 16, 2018 9:49 pm

Re: BUGS Swarming our position! Request suppressing fire

Muttie wrote:Missing Gabriel trigger?I went Gecko-Hunting with the tribe, but when the conclusion came I switched sides (the route was: “collect proof” to “Falber” to “Herman” to “Falber” and then “the attack on the tribe”). When I reported back to Falber I got 10.000 (another time 5000) caps. In both cases Gabriel did not ask for his cut. Is that correct? I mean he does ask for 1000 after attacking the hospital with the tribe, and he should probably ask for more when working for Falber. Is this caused by switching sides? Or does he never ask for a cut when working for Falber? May check from here http://www.filedropper.com/slot290gabrielreward.

Apparently Gabriel does never ask for his cut when attacking the tribe. Is this an oversight? He could at least ask for 2000 caps. Or for 1500 from the 5000. And 3000 from the 10.000?
I kind of suspect this is a bit of a workaround as companions don't work so well in this fights (no Stun Batons, so they kill a lot of people unless someone works around that, either by switching sides (from the tribe to Falber) which has one find 6 Stun Batons or having high Melee and 2 Bonus Move which allows to pick off most enemies the companions shot at). However, most times companions are probably left behind and the player decides to hunt alone, I guess, especially as the fights are not that difficult. The mercenaries can usually handle it alone. And it may feel unfair if a player picks up Gabriel after the final battle and then suddenly has to pay him his share. Although Gabriel is evil, so why wouldn't he ask for his share, even if he did nothing...?
However, what about placing two dead mercenaries on the “Camp of wanderers” map, aka the first donor hunt, which is arguably the toughest (so two dead mercs may underline that) (perhaps they are from a previous attempt to attack?), and each corpse has an “empty” Stun Baton on him? This way a player could equip two companions for the remaining hunts and the final battle, which should not make a big difference difficulty wise (I think) but it would only make the fights faster.
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Muttie

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Post Fri Aug 24, 2018 12:48 am

Re: BUGS Swarming our position! Request suppressing fire

Doctor Moore
Muttie wrote:When killing doctor Moore, and then leaving before looting his body, and then not helping Alexa with her attack, causes Moore's 13 caps to be covered by the blood stain and they can't be picked up. (...).

Actually it works to use the T hotkey, :roll:, “welcome to 2018” :).
This should also work for Vex's head, actually.
And the odd trick/exploit of getting Lucy's necklace twice should work with this too (i.e. “companion kill” on Lucy in the bar, try to get out of combat, let her body disappear, loot the wall-safe, and then use T key to pick up necklace from under her blood stain).

Avira AntivirPro detects “fores_config.exe” as a suspicious code, it's reference/description of it is HEUR/APC, and wants to delete it. Malwarebytes does not have a problem with it. Nor does Antivir when offline, funny enough (cloud something?). I'm sure it's not malicious, but it may be better to avoid such detections, if possible, as it may encourage people to delete it and/or distrust the mod.

Ben: blinded by pining
Normally attacking the tribe removes Ben (actually it seems to be “killing Aleea”). However, when I work for Falber but don't participate in the attack (say “no” to Falber or ask to get paid first after getting Herman's permission) then Ben is not removed during the attack (i.e. the cutscene that plays when entering the Suburbs doesn't remove him). Instead I can talk to him and get the earring etc., but of course it's impossible to do anything else, as the tribe/Aleea is gone.
http://www.filedropper.com/slot292benremoval. (you can either participate now or say no to Falber. This is also before getting permission from Herman so you can try that too.)
Secondly, and this is probably worse, when I have established a relationship with Ben, then participating in the attack on the tribe (Falber quest), or killing Aleea, removes Ben from his house, and he's not coming back. One could argue he runs away once Aleea is kidnapped/dead (which makes sense normally) but in this case (“relationship”) one could argue that he moved on and should be over it (as he's with the player-character now). The fact that I cannot attack the tribe/kill Aleea without losing Ben, is something I'm not really happy with. It can make sense, of course (Ben feels remorse), but I think there should be an option to “trick Ben” and “betray the tribe”.
http://www.filedropper.com/slot294bengone. (this is before everything, so you need to establish the relationship with Ben, then betray the tribe (i.e. talk to Falber), permission from Herman and then attack (Keri is already equipped with a Stun Baton), Ben will be gone and not return, no matter what).
Isn't it possible that instead “removing Ben” (when Aleea is dead) he is always “moved to his house” instead (as he does when entering the relationship with him or telling him that Aleea has found someone else) and then he either “::sobs::” (floater only) or is open to dialogue (when relationship established) (or perhaps even always open to dialogue when the player is female. It could simply enter the “she was not the only woman in the world” dialogue path and then he either agrees or goes to ::sobs:: depending on CH).

Then there is a minor glitch. When I arrive at AQ with Frederyk's special caravan (Frost is alive) and then travel the wasteland until the next Sedit Caravan is in town then the Sedit caravan leader is at the gate and not at the shelter next to the beam. All other caravan leaders (Crimson & Sedit) are positioned normally, only the Frederyk's Dream one takes the “arrival spot” of Frost (at the gate) and also walks to the shelter after talking to her (you can check that in the Slot292 linked above) or reproduce it from:
http://www.filedropper.com/slot293aqcarleader (this is in front of Frost and you need to travel until the 6/7, then the 21/22 and so on to get the female Caravan leader, and she'll always be at the gate). However, this is just a minor glitch, no need to fix it really.

Then I have an error which is probably not a bug but a corrupted save (bugger). http://www.filedropper.com/slot302aleeagone. In that save I can't get Aleea to spawn at the Wild Paradise. Everything is normal (Madame Chow dialogue option, collecting her earnings) but the room is empty (i.e. it misses out on the last dialogue with Aleea). I tried it with a different character (works fine), then with a previous save of the bugged out character (it is at the start of Corath) (and the same issue: http://www.filedropper.com/noaleeaemptyroom) and then I tried the save above (Slot293AQCarLeader), which is also the same character, but much earlier (and it took a different quest path) and Aleea spawns just fine. So, unless it's a bug caused by (?) my saves probably got corrupted, which is a bummer, really. Anyway, I tried several things (travelling, paying for Gabriel, killing Ben, violence settings, changing orders), but Aleea just won't spawn. However, this is not that problematic, the only thing I'm worried about is, that other elements of the save may be corrupted, too. Is that possible? And is there an option to fix the corrupted save with something from the working saves?

Gabriel at the WP
In the same save (Slot302AleeaGone) there is enough cash to treat Gabriel three times at the Wild Paradise, until he is not allowed any more service. However, after the third time, the option doesn't switch off him. I can pay once more (400 only, leaves a blood stain) and only then it switches to Keri permanently.

Then there are two missing triggers, which are both similar. After defeating the hospital one reports to Gurgan, and if he's dead to Rua. However, Rua is missing some triggers.
First, http://www.filedropper.com/slot295gabrielreward (just talk to Rua and the 1000 caps demand by Gabriel doesn't trigger, as it does when reporting back to Gurgan.)
(Note: When accepting to work for Falber Gabriel makes a comment that those tribals pay poorly. There is also an adjustment in Gabriel's comment when the player has no 1000 caps to pay him (“that's what you get for getting paid in furs”). Perhaps a similar comment could trigger when accepting Gurgan's quest “to find out who is responsible for the attack”, like “What do you think about helping the tribe?” Gabriel:“If you want to play good Samaritan, that's your problem, but I'm not going along with it unless I get fucking paid. And I doubt these butt-naked primitives carry anything of value (on them). (joke, which isn't really funny, and may confuse:) (But who knows, [he looks at you with a grin] there may be more than meets the eye.)“ to have a “can't say he didn't warn the player” comment (i.e. the PC may end up to have to pay Gabriel without having any Money and the quest itself doesn't pay). But, it's optional/just an idea.)
And second, http://www.filedropper.com/slot296ruabug (This save is missing a trigger that occurs when I attack the hospital and then join the Mutant Hunters before reporting back to Gurgan/Rua. If I do that (i.e. the Herman quest) then Gurgan will not reward me but only spawn angry red floaters. However, Rua doesn't react and it allows me to get the reward, become a Tribe friend and join the Mutant Hunters. However, I need to do the Herman quest first as I did in this save, as the Mutant Hunters react to Tribe Friend. Here's a screenshot of me being both: http://www.filedropper.com/huntertribefriend.
Side-note: I'm not sure if Rua should get an angry red floater like “Gurgan and the rest of the tribe” do, or just a single dialogue exchange (“you helped us but you're not our friend”) but then keep the dialogue with Rua open for the “soul searching” option. As that's what Rua does at the moment (i.e. no matter what I do, I can always talk to Rua, even if the rest of the tribe doesn't like me anymore). The only exception is failing the “blood reading” and getting -1 LK, after that Rua will never talk to me again (which, btw, also cancels reporting to Rua in case Gurgan died during the attack.)
Anyway those two Gurgan triggers (Gabriel reward and angry floater) are missing for Rua it seems.

Lystra and the Law of the Ring.
I think Lystra loops in the ring fights. She looses to Cedrick & Blaster (both is fine) but against Chadwick and Bill she gets stuck in a loop (tested with Robes, Kevlar and Combat Armour). Bill/Chadwick always miss, while she always hits. And it goes on for minutes (had to use the windows key to get out.)
http://www.filedropper.com/slot297lystraloop. (You can do both fights from this save).
Not sure if Lystra should beat Bill or Chadwick, probably not, however, I'm not sure if it's the missing dialogue after she won (Keri and Gabriel both trigger a comment) or the exile cutscene that fails to play. Or if it's the fight, that gets stuck in animation. Perhaps it's a problem of the censored version?

Lystra and the injured miner.
When I talk to doctor Linsday and the miner is hurt, I get the chance to offer my expertise (with the option to back out again) or say “I won't interrupt”. When I say “won't interrupt” the option to heal the miner is gone. Which is fine, except when Lystra is in the party. As ending the dialogue with Linsday (in any way) triggers a comment by Lystra regarding her doing the operation, but when I did chose “I won't interrupt” it leads to nothing, as I can't make the offer to Linsday any more.
You can test that in the same save as above (Slot297).
Perhaps Lystra's comment shouldn't trigger by “talking to Linsday” but only by using the “I can help” option. Although I don't think Lystra should just stand by and do nothing, but always comment, and operate, as long as she is in the party. (I think the comment fits both occasions. Asking her “if she would do it” and asking her “if she feels up to it”.)
Or, alternatively, saying “won't interrupt” cancels the option as usual (which is fine), but it triggers Lystra's comment (as it does currently) which then reopens the option with Linsday (i.e. her comment triggers the “Could Lystra perform the operation” option in the Linsday dialogue.)
Lastly, Lystra being in the party (even without comment) could be enough to open the “Could Lystra perform the operation” option. At the moment the option already changes based on Lystra being in the party or not. For example, I can toggle the option on & off by adding/removing her from the party, and then there is the peculiar case of her learning that her brother is dead (removes her from the party), then I do the first Chadwick quest, wait 24 hours, talk to Linsday (offer help) and then get Lystra back in the party: and the option is there (it just skips her comment).
So the option (“Can Lystra do the operation”) could actually trigger when Lystra is in the party, and not only when Lystra is in the party and after offering help.

Gurgan and hunters' death
This is a minor issue, but when I kill all hunters during a gecko-hunt, then Gurgan will not send me on another gecko-hunt. Which is fine, however, during the last hunt (the ambush) all hunters can die. (Either by my own hand or by Keri with her “friendly fire” SMG). When I return I get the quest (find out who is responsible...) as usual. The odd (bug?) is that the next time I talk to Gurgan I get the “all hunters died” & “you can't go on another hunt” message which ends dialogue. This may confuse, as it suggests that Gurgan is angry, but it really has no consequence, just talk to Gurgan again and report who is responsible for the attack etc. (I tried this “before and after” collecting the proof, and the message always triggers, i.e. it is always Gurgan's second comment when talking to him).
http://www.filedropper.com/slot298gurganresponse (this is on the “ambush-map” and all hunters are dead, killed this time by “friendly fire” aka Keri and her SMG. You can return to Gurgan, report and the second time you talk to him it should be the “no hunter returned” comment).
This is not a big deal, and the fact that the quest is given no matter what (e.g. all hunters died or by fleeing off the map) is good (especially the option to flee). The only difference, as far as I can tell, is that when all hunters died I don't get the +10 karma from Gurgan, which is fair.
However, the message that “all hunters died” shouldn't trigger, but skipped in that case. Or it needs to adjust the quest dialogue to something like “all hunters died, we need to find out who did this, before it kills the entire tribe, no hunters means no skins, no skins means no tribe etc.”.
Side note: the “you run away/coward” comment by Gurgan does not trigger (when running away from the ambush) only the “no hunter returned one” does.

Kidnapping/cell-door
Here is a minor error. The cell-door keeping David is only closed but not locked when loading the Suburbs for the first time, only entering the map a second time also locks the cell.
http://www.filedropper.com/slot301opencelldoor. (This save is shortly before AQ, the note (that spawns David, is in the inventory and not read yet). So read note, enter AQ, get the William's quest and use Sex Appeal to get in the basement (quickest way) and the cell-door is not locked. If you enter the basement by fighting it's the same. However, if you do the same as above but leave and enter the Suburbs once (in any way, including entering AQ without reading the note, then enter Dead Quarter, read the note there, and then return to the Suburbs), then the cell-door is locked. So it's the “first loading” of the Suburbs map that closes the door (if David has been spawned), but doesn't lock it.
Side-note: the cell-door key (on the ganger) spawns immediately (i.e. when reading the note). Only the cell-door needs to load the Suburbs a second time to get locked. However, it's not a big deal as opening the cell-door should never be an issue, it's just cosmetic/role-play.

Additions to the AQ crash (not again...)
Testing the cell-door, required me to enter “AQ for the first time” repeatedly and it worked (to my surprise), but once I had massive stuttering again (which is very rare, only had that happen once before), and eventually a few crashes (nothing new): “Instruction 0048b439 at referenced memory 00000001" when entering AQ. “Instruction 0048b1f2 at referenced memory 00000000" when trying to save in the basement. “Instruction 00489467 at referenced memory 00000004" when trying to leave AQ to the world map or Dead Quarter. I tried to fix it with my usual method: loading http://www.filedropper.com/slot04aqfixfemale (entering Downtown, save, load, enter AQ) but it didn't work this time. However it did with this one http://www.filedropper.com/slot43aqfixmale (same method: entering Downtown, save, load, enter AQ). And another save (also male), that didn't work previously, worked this time too (different sex or character?).
My version is censored, does that matter? Is there anything on the Suburbs a censored version struggles with? I don't think there is, and if it should crash all the time. However, I did stumble over an issue (dead quarter operations, see below) were the censored version causes only occasionally a crash, which had me wondering again.
The cell-door error also had me wondering if this “first Suburb map” is sort of unique and special, and if this could be a part of the “first AQ visit” crash? I also had a few old screenshots in connection to crashes on AQ (http://www.filedropper.com/aqhighlight). On each of those screenshots were elements on the map highlighted, and those games did crash when I tried to enter Hunter's Territory. Perhaps it's a map error.
These highlighted walls also play into an old suspicion of mine (or should that be superstition :) ) that part of the problem could be that I'm using shift to run (highlights items). As I had odd behaviour when I hit caps lock by accident (the shift key stopped working once, and capslock couldn't be turned off anymore without leaving the mod). And once I got kicked out of the mod as Windows wanted to know if tapping shift five times should lock in caps lock. I then selected “No”, reopened Resurrection (via task manager) and found that caps lock was still on (tested by naming a save game, which was all in caps) but it was not according to my keyboard (no light indicator), and neither in open office. In fact I had to close the mod completely to turn off caps lock. Anyway, this had me wondering if the mod may get messed up by excessive “shift” use. However, I had this happen again (caps-lock can't be deselected) but I couldn't reproduce it. Not sure what causes it. It's probably nothing.
I also had odd skips, as happens in Corath. I loaded a game in AQ/Suburbs and instead I ended up on AQ/Hunter's Territory. Another time I ended up on the world map. As this never caused any problems, and is not reproducible, I didn't pay it much attention. However, considering the AQ issue, the first map etc., perhaps there is something wrong? Actually, this also happened in Sedit once, but I can't remember exactly how and where. It's actually very rare.
(Anyway, these were a few snippets I had still lying around and I won't mention the AQ crash again, swear, probably...).

Note on AQ kidnapper
It seems there is no reason to talk to the “contact man” in AQ, other than learning that Vex did it. But a player who knows that Vex is behind it, can get David the moment the note has been read. The only thing this might miss out on are the 500 XP from Kevin/Sedit Caravan. (Although they can be collected as long as David hasn't been returned home yet, aka entered Downtown).
As the contact man has an unique set of requirements and triggers comments by Gabriel (will go to Vex) and Lystra (about Vex) perhaps add a 250 or 500 XP reward for getting the information (by intimidating him or paying caps, but not (!) by fighting/killing him, as the red floater, aka failure to get the “detailed info”, doesn't trigger the Gabriel or Lystra comment). This could help to make this conversation, and solving it, a more regular stepping stone in the quest line. Otherwise I can just skip it, and never bother to get the “detailed info”.
Also the contact man reacts to Vex death (dialogue adjusts) but not to David being freed. I can kill the entire gang and have David with me, he doesn't react (normal dialogue). However, Vex does react when I have David with me (angry/red floater and attacks), and the contact man may get the same trigger. Some floater when approaching with David in the party, like “Oh, shit they found the boy.” and runs away (or attacks), although I like running better (however, that may need a screen-fade/cutscene, which may not be optimal). Although he may also keep his cool, and act dumb (which may make more sense), and having freed David only ends the dialogue options (he could say instead “No idea, what you are talking about [glimpses nervously at David]”) and then it could basically end like the normal dialogue (fights or runs away). At the moment he only seems to despawn when David has been returned (i.e. entering Downtown).

Fight on the Suburbs & Alvarez
When fighting Vex it happens that they hit immigrants who then join the fight. This is fine, however, it becomes annoying when Alvarez joins in as he moves out of position and never goes back to his shop (as it was in FO1 during the LA Boneyard fight for Adytum, which sucked). Having shop owners displaced isn't optimal and, consequently, is it at all possible to reset Alvarez when combat ends (walks back or cut-scene reset)? I know that Rua walks back to his tent when ending combat with the tribe. And Vex is always teleported back to his standard position. For example when I start combat and pull him out of position, and then leave and re-enter the Suburbs, he's back at his normal place, while the rest of the gang isn't (explanation: I tried to get in the basement). Which may be another option. Or, another idea, you could break both his legs so that he can't move? … What?! ...It's a reasonable request… (EDIT: don't know what I was thinking, but both legs being crippled shouldn't immobilize.)
Anyway, it is also possible for the player to contain the fight and not let it spill to the south part, which pulls in Alvarez, but if there's an easy way to stop his displacement, it would be nice.

ST Operation possibly collides with censored version
I think there is a bug regarding the Strength operation in Dead Quarter/AQ. However, it is oddly irregular.
http://www.filedropper.com/slot299stoperation. This save has Gabriel and Keri in the party. I can now sell Gabriel, then swap Keri plus 10.000 caps for +1 PE. This has Keri's corpse glitch out (minor bug) (screenshot: KeriCorpse & KeriCorspeOutside). And so far I always got this “standing/falling body” glitch when selling Keri.
The more problematic bug is when swapping Gabriel and 5.000 for +1 ST. I tried (dialogue with Falber:) 3/3/1/1/1 and 3/2/3/1/1/1 and selling him for only 5.000. Sometimes it worked, sometimes it crashed: “Instruction 00471b99 at referenced memory 00000000". However, it's like 3 out of 10 crash (and 3/3/1/1/1 seems to crash more regularly). Another time it spawned the wrong corpse (a civilian corpse with Gabriel's description: screenshot: FalseCorpse), and when I removed all items (but armour) from Gabriel, I had repeatedly no body spawned (screenshot: GabrielNoCorpse). So it may have something to do with the corpse that causes the crash, either in regard to items, spawning it or perhaps in relation to the violence settings (I do have the censored version). The last may explain the Keri glitch (should be cut up it seems: screenshot: KeriCorspe2), however, it does not really explain why selling Gabriel crashes sometimes, but not all the time (as issues with censored content used to crash consistently (so far)).
I also tried Lystra: http://www.filedropper.com/slot300inoperation. And it's similar to Gabriel, sometimes I get the standard body (screenshot LystraCorpse & LystraCorpse2), once a false body (screenshot LystraFalseCorpse) and sometimes no body (screenshot NoLystraCorpse).
The last (NoBody) triggered when I changed the violence settings. I first had a standard body spawn (settings on maximum) (dialogue: 2/3/5/1/1), reloaded and changed the settings to minimum (and got no body), reloaded (which had the settings back to maximum again) and it crashed: “Instruction 0042de05 at referenced memory 00000184" etc..
I then tried to reproduce it but instead the crash I got repeatedly “no body” outcomes (about 4 times in a row). I then reloaded Gabriel and tried 3/3/1/1/1 and it crashed as described in the Gabriel section above.
I also had a crash with Lystra when selecting 2/2/4/1/1/1: “Instruction 004af4b0 at referenced memory 000000b4". Another time is was (2/3/5/1/1, I think?): and “Instruction 1000e732 at referenced memory 00000154". So, Lystra seems a lot more inconsistent. Gabriel has always the same crash (so far) while Lystra's save crashed less often and less consistently (three different errors). Perhaps because the save's violence settings are on maximum and not on minimal (?) or her model is different to Gabriel's? But it's most likely the different settings). Anyway this does seem to be a problem with censored content.
This folder has all the screenshots referenced above: http://www.filedropper.com/stoperationscreenshots
Side-note: It should be noted that stats like (total HP, AC and carry weight) don't adjust after the operation until opening the character sheet (you can check that by opening the Inventory screen first, where carry weight doesn't adjust). That had me confused for a while until I discovered it. So it's not a problematic bug, but one that people should be aware of.
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Muttie

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Posts: 92

Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2017 10:42 pm

Post Tue Sep 11, 2018 7:07 pm

Re: BUGS Swarming our position! Request suppressing fire

Here are a few minor points and observations, I came across while strolling the wastes.
But first I feel it's time to point out again how well made the mod is. Even after 9 months of playing it, I'm still loving it. The detail is just amazing, and although this list keeps growing, mostly with oddities and small-time events, it is really impressive how often the mod actually “DID” get it right. That list would be even longer! The stability of the mod (quest design, triggers etc.) is really outstanding, and it shouldn't be forgotten when looking at bug reports for too long. This really is just a small portion of the mod. And I'm still very impressed by it!

Kidnap switch from Vex to small-time gang
During the kidnap quest, a small-time gang will replace Vex's gang. I think there is a problem regarding the trigger. I believe the trigger is entering the suburbs when 1.) 8 gang members have been killed (not counting Vex). And, 2.) the note has been read (which spawns David and locks the cell door). When both is true the game adds 3 gang members to the basement when loading the Suburbs.
The problem is that when I attack Vex, do the above ground fight (which kills 8 gang members) and then leave to the DQ hospital for healing, which makes sense, I'll trigger the switch and have 11 (8+3) gang members in the basement (and two keys).
It took me some time to figure this out (originally I thought this is correct), but all considered it probably isn't. (Especially as it looks odd as they spawn on top of each other). I also believe the “removed 10mm SMG ganger” when using the Black Widow option on Vex, is actively avoiding this issue (i.e. it reduces the gang above ground from 8 to 7 (aka one below the threshold) once the gang turns hostile.) However, the “healing in DQ” scenario isn't covered, and may trigger rather regularly. After all, it only takes to leave the Suburbs once after wiping Vex and the 8 members with him. And that is not unlikely, as a character may, for example, heal at the hospital or clear inventory space by selling items to Chuck, before going down the basement.
I think the most optimal solution would be, if the “substitutes” would only spawn when Vex's gang is gone. One way to do this could be that once Vex is dead, his entire gang (all 16) are removed when accepting the kidnapping quest from Bruce Carpenter. And the moment David spawns back into the game (aka reading the note) it spawns a “substitute gang” into the basement should Vex be dead. Which could also be a bit stronger than just a gang of three (perhaps 5 to 6?). And if Vex is alive, reading the note only spawns the key, as it does right now. Wouldn't this cause the least complications? At least I don't think that “Vex: alive/dead” could fail as a trigger to replace his gang in case of the kidnapping? Besides, Kevin's contact man in AQ already adjusts to Vex being dead or not (?).
Another problem is that the 3 new gang members spawn at any point after the trigger (aka 8 dead and note read). For example, when I clear the basement, take David, but then return to it, as I might have forgotten to pick up an item or did not had enough inventory space at the time, then there will be suddenly 3 new gang members in the basement, which isn't optimal either. So perhaps the end of the trigger may need adjusting, too. (Currently it's “returning David home (aka entering Downtown)”, I think (?), and perhaps it needs to be “opening the cell door” and/or “recruiting David (aka having him in the party)” that ends the spawn, if that is possible?
Just in case: http://www.filedropper.com/slot303kidnappbug (In this save I have the note (not read yet) and I killed all of Vex's gang above ground, but one, who ran away (long hair dude). You can now test all scenarios: leave the map, read the note and enter the basement (result: David and 8 gangers). Or you can enter the basement (take Psycho) then kill them all (or only one), leave the map, read note and enter the basement again (result: David and +3 gangers in addition to the remaining ones). Or kill the long hair dude above ground, leave the map, read note and then enter the basement (result: David and 11 gangers (8+3) spawned on top of each other). Last, you can also leave the map, read note, wipe the basement (8 ganger), pick up David, leave map, return to basement and the 3 substitute gang members should have spawned in it.
Simpler solutions could be to set the threshold to 9 gang members, i.e. 8 + “One more” (who, by default, has to be from the basement). This way triggering the “small-time gang” would have to be very deliberate (i.e. into the basement, kill one, leave basement, leave map, return to basement). Or, similar to the Black Widow option, you could instead remove one of the gang members above ground permanently (like the one with the Knife). But I think the suggested trigger (Vex dead: gang removed when accepting the quest) & (Vex dead: substitutes spawn when reading note) should be cleaner, as it would be always only one of the two gangs present, and never a mix up.

Minor oversight at the sheriff's villa
When I got access to the villa (after accepting the quest to find David) I can use the standard “What is this place” dialogue option with Jeffrey, and get access anyway. However, when I choose that option with John, I don't, it plays the standard path of “This is the sheriff's villa. I won't let you in”. This is a rare occurrence as those options are usually used up at this point, but when the mod adjusts for Jeffery you can probably copy that over to John easily. http://www.filedropper.com/slot304johnenter (for convenience).

Gabriel & Lystra comment
When learning from Kevin's contact man at AQ that Vex is behind the kidnapping, the comments by Gabriel (wants pay) & Lystra (about Vex) are not reacting to Vex's death. This is a detail really but for the most part the mod pays attention to such changes (for example the contact man himself adjusts), and their comments (Gabriel & Lystra) are one of the few exceptions to the rule, and could be adjusted based on the same trigger.

David Carpenter
Once he becomes a companion he is apparently not set as a “child” anymore, as killing him doesn't trigger childkiller. It does when I kill him before “recruiting” aka “rescuing” him. I'm not sure if it is worth bothering with this, but Childkiller may trigger the moment a “recruited” David dies, no matter who killed him (i.e. the -15 karma that trigger when he dies, may also trigger “childkiller” as one is to blame for his death, perhaps?). This is a rather minor point, but killing David accidentally in a burst, or losing him to an encounter, marking one as a Childkiller, in addition to failing the quest, could be funny.

Suggestion on Carpenter reward
Gabriel could ask for a reward after returning David. This is not as big a deal as the Dead Quarter hospital where Gabriel makes a comment how well the doctors pay but then never asks for his cut in the end. But, besides that, I feel Gabriel should get in on any major reward. And the 10.000 by Carpenter is such a reward. He does ask for 2500 when learning that Vex is behind it, but I think he could ask for another 2000, 2500 or 3000 when collecting the final pay. Perhaps with a dialogue like: “Fuck me, that's a nice sum for saving a worthless, little (maggot/shit). I still think we could have made a better profit with Vex, but don't mind me. [He holds out a hand]. Although (2500/3000) barely pays for the pains of travelling (the wastes) with a (crying) child (with that useless, little snot-nose/shit).” Reply “Here you go [throw him (a purse of) # caps].” or “You bastard, I'm fed up with your attitude and demands, I'll pay you nothing!” Second warning: “So this is how it ends then, is it? With you dead and me taking the whole purse from your (mutilated/broken) body. That's going to be fun. [He grins wolfishly.] ” Reply: “Relax, take your 3000 caps and shut up.” or “Come and get it, motherfucker!”. Or something like it. (You never have to use anything I suggest. It's not what I think “must be done”, nor will I be disappointed if it has been ignored. I just don't want to be that guy who just points and says “fix it”. So, at the very least, I want to put in a little effort. And I always sit down and put at least a few lines, ideas and solutions together (as hopeless and ignorant they may be at times). Well, and it's also a bit of fun, really. Work, but fun.

Karma is weird
I recently changed the ddraw.ini to display karma changes (a small step for mankind but a big leap for me), and it plays normal for the most part, except for an oddity during the rescuing of David Carpenter. When I spare the Nanny I get +10 karma, but when I blame her I get -10 (blame her?), another -10 (she gets killed?) and then when I click the next reply option I get +10 (go look for David at Little Hub). Aren't the last two karma changes superfluous? I don't think there is any alternative option (i.e. the dialogue with Carpenter is very straight forward, other than the blaming decision. Unless I'm missing something). I think I even got -20 karma once (before the ddraw.ini change), which puzzled me, I then repeated it and got only -10. So I thought I made an error, but in hindsight it actually may have bugged out on me once and gave me falsely -20 karma for blaming the Nanny (?).

Keri karma exploit
The karma option with Keri are great (+2 for preaching to her) and (-1 for insulting her father), however, there is another one which gives +1 for telling her “I'm sorry”. That one is exploitable as I can repeat that dialogue part endlessly for endless +1 karma. Personally, I would remove the +1, just have a plain option to say sorry, as I think two karma options are enough. Or you need to cancel the dialogue at one point (as it does when going the preaching/insult routes) or just leave it in, as it's just a minor exploit. (The sequence I used with Keri for 67 points of karma was 1/1/1/1/2/1/2).

Missing wall piece
Here is another minor map error on the Suburbs map of AQ. (http://www.filedropper.com/missingwall). The wall next to the door of Catherine's house is missing. This save did not crash when entering AQ etc., the wall just continued not to be there. However, I've never seen this before (maybe once, though?) and I have no idea how to trigger it. And I lost the save as I was playing casually (aka not bothering to make a proper report, and I snapped out of my laziness too late).

Staircase at Uncle's place (Corath)
I noticed that the PC is always walking around the stairs when trying to descend to the ground floor. Which is not a big deal, but slightly annoying over time, especially as this does not seem to be the case with other stairs (like at the Wild Paradise, or at William's house).http://www.filedropper.com/slot305unclestairs
At the WP I can stand on the top of the stairs (walk onto them), but at Uncle's house the move cursor features a X. And in William's house the stairs are close to the wall, and always used “normally” from the right. (nagging wife voice): “Why can't we have nice stairs like the people in AQ? My mother warned me against moving to Corath but... etc. etc.”

Falcon
When doing Lystra's quest to find her brother, one has to talk to Falcon first. Doing this does not put Corath on the map, which is an oversight, as Falcon says “go to Corath”, but not “where Corath is”. This is an oddity but a character “may” end up in AQ before visiting Sedit (i.e. talking to Gregory and/or taking a caravan to Corath). So Falcon should put it on the map. http://www.filedropper.com/slot306falconcorath (if you need a shortcut).
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