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BUGS Swarming our position! Request suppressing fire

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Muttie

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Post Mon May 28, 2018 10:37 pm

Re: BUGS Swarming our position! Request suppressing fire

Daemon wrote:Did you in any point change NumPathNodes setting in f2_res.ini? Values 5 or higher could cause bugs like that.

I've checked. NumPathNodes is on 1.
I also never changed anything, or added anything else (patch/mods etc.). I have a default installation on top of FO2 RP Mod. This is also the second PC, my first one died on me, and both were a normal installation, without any changes made. And both had the same behaviour.
However, I really like the option to run away (I mean why not?). This quest is more about confirming Frederyk's suspicions. Killing Nicol's men or acting openly against her is not necessary (nor does it ever happen (at least with Frederyk)). I think, it is enough to report back and tell Frederyk that it was indeed a trap.
“So karma 0...perhaps?” :wink:


Daemon wrote:First of the three options depends on your charisma.For “please help” option you need decent charisma, for “offering a reward” option you need decent intelligence.

I didn't realize the stats requirements. Thanks, that helps.
But I assume you mean that the options are unlocked by (CH, IN or speech) but then need 91% speech to succeed. Is that correct?
At least I tested it again and it seems as if:

“What are you doing...” always an available option, but needs CH6+ to succeed
“One patient...” needs speech 71% to be offered and succeed
“I heard...” needs to unlock the Vodka dialogue (Penep, Richie, Challenge) and then IN (8 works, 6 doesn't) to be offered and succeed

Any of those three options then leads to the following two options:

“Please help me...” needs speech 71% to be offered and 91% speech to succeed
“Listen I'm willing to reward you...” needs speech 71% to be offered and 91% speech to succeed
(I also tried 81% speech with CH 10 and IN 10 (mentats), and it fails in both cases.)

It was those last two I referred to. And I thought it could be 91% (“Help”) (71% to be offered and 91% speech to succeed) or an offer of 2000 caps (“reward”) (2000 caps to be offered and succeed) instead.

The reason is I consider the Blaster fight a bit of a dead end, as I see little options to beat him. One can do it oneself, there are ways, but if not able to (weak character) the only other options are Gabriel (evil) or Keri (91% speech). And it seems as if the options narrow down so much that it almost feels like a dead end (or speech option only), which is unusual for the mod (normally there are more alternatives).
Or am I missing something? As said I tried a few things (killing the keeper with Dynamite (which is possible), and opening the cell and letting Blaster out, but neither seems to have an effect. As far as I can tell).


Note on waiting
I read the comment by Keri, which reminded me of two scenarios were waiting wasn't optimal:
First, waiting for the reply to Adams letter in Rat Hole. I'm never sure what to do with those 24 hours, other than taking a stroll through the waste. It's OK, but it feels a bit like slowing down the game as there is nothing else to do but waiting (i.e. I can play through the whole of Rat Hole and he's still not done writing (?!, :wink:)). Perhaps reduce it to a few hours only. Not much of a difference, but it could be nice if he is done when one has finished waiting for Katrin's purchase (i.e. a couple of hours only (instead 24) which may help to speed the game up a bit).
The second one is more annoying: Waiting for Chris to finish the Gauss Rifle. The only option is the book, but without it one has to leave the base (2 elevator rides out and 2 back in, which is annoying) only to pass time by walking around the desert (24 hours I think). Which is not optimal, and perhaps adding a “[wait until he's finished]” option in Chris' dialogue (similar to the gravedigger in Corath) could make sense.
I think both could help, but especially the Chris one could be considered.
Otherwise I don't mind taking the stroll or reading a few books (or use Waiting for Love) to pass the time. It's a bit running back and forth sometimes (ring-basement-ring-basement), but usually the routes are short enough to be acceptable.
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Post Sun Jun 03, 2018 10:48 am

Re: BUGS Swarming our position! Request suppressing fire

Muttie wrote:Note on waiting
I read the comment by Keri, which reminded me of two scenarios were waiting wasn't optimal:
First, waiting for the reply to Adams letter in Rat Hole. I'm never sure what to do with those 24 hours, other than taking a stroll through the waste. It's OK, but it feels a bit like slowing down the game as there is nothing else to do but waiting (i.e. I can play through the whole of Rat Hole and he's still not done writing (?!, :wink:)). Perhaps reduce it to a few hours only. Not much of a difference, but it could be nice if he is done when one has finished waiting for Katrin's purchase (i.e. a couple of hours only (instead 24) which may help to speed the game up a bit).
The second one is more annoying: Waiting for Chris to finish the Gauss Rifle. The only option is the book, but without it one has to leave the base (2 elevator rides out and 2 back in, which is annoying) only to pass time by walking around the desert (24 hours I think). Which is not optimal, and perhaps adding a “[wait until he's finished]” option in Chris' dialogue (similar to the gravedigger in Corath) could make sense.
I think both could help, but especially the Chris one could be considered.
Otherwise I don't mind taking the stroll or reading a few books (or use Waiting for Love) to pass the time. It's a bit running back and forth sometimes (ring-basement-ring-basement), but usually the routes are short enough to be acceptable.


Maybe I can offer a solution. Just try to heal your companions or other NPCs 24 times (skill Doctor) or 48 times (First Aid). Better solution, of course, is healing this NPC which is not wounded because your charakter would get tired.
It works regardless of your % in both skills.
I used this solution when my character was on drugs and Gabirel/Lystra/Keri were angry with me.
But I agree with you. Maybe the time in Rath Hole could be lowered.
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Muttie

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Post Sun Jun 03, 2018 11:22 pm

Re: BUGS Swarming our position! Request suppressing fire

That's another option :). Although perhaps rather an emergency solution as “pressing the heal button” 24 or 48 times is quite a lot actually.
Reading “Waiting for Love” 12 times (with IN 9) from a hand slot to pass 24 hours is the maximum of button pushing I'm willing to do :). I sometimes also keep books (first aid, science etc.) for those moments and read them when I have to pass the time (unless I need the points earlier).
Rat Hole is just too early to have books, including “waiting for love”. Then again, it's not a big deal either, there is always the wasteland, it's just a bit of an unnecessary pause.

However, I actually like the feature that resting/healing is "somewhat" disabled. I never liked that option (healing by waiting) in FO. It's just not always optimal in 1.5.
The best thing would be if there would be a waiting option (no heal, like waiting at a train-station, which can be very stressful and exhausting) and a resting option (heal, like at a hotel room (as if it were a doctor)), but I assume that's not easy, or even impossible, to do with FO2.

I think that a character can heal by waiting was never really a good mechanic. Perhaps realistic to some extent (then it becomes unrealistic again). But the option to wait only (to have time related events) may have been better, than combining it with healing.
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Muttie

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Post Thu Jun 28, 2018 10:34 pm

Re: BUGS Swarming our position! Request suppressing fire

ErrorMessage
http://www.filedropper.com/slot291errormessage. When using the crowbar to bust open the brahmin pen there is an error message until the pen is opened.

Muttie wrote:http://www.filedropper.com/slot271blocked2. I submitted this before but this time it's during the Crater quest. A bar guest stands in the door and won't let me through (no push option). This happens fairly regularly as a consequence of “reluctant combat”, (i.e. when I try to kill Clark in the distiller room, while trying to avoid to get into a fight with the other people at the bar (to avoid the karma loss). But it is not a big deal. I can restart combat, land one hit, get the guest to run (which opens the exit), and then end combat again (seems to work rather smoothly). I can also walk up to them before ending combat and they continue to run. Both options only have the risk that companions continue the killing of guests. However, trying solve the quest by killing Clark, but without killing guests (and taking the -10 karma from each) is probably a dumb idea anyway. (There is a 1000 caps and a speech option for that).

I said this doesn't matter that much, as avoiding the karma loss in the fight is not that important (or even intended!). However, I recently played through the casino fight in Lost Town. And there the “inhabitants of Sedit” would run away when I talk to them.
And it occurred to me that could be a neat solution for the Crater fight as well.
Some patrons may be set on attack (like the cop in the casino), for example Clark, Loiz and the guy in the green shirt (perhaps?), but the rest (or all) can be set to “run when talked to”, to have a “push option” in case the player manages to get out of combat.
Eventually they all get removed from the map anyway. So I think that could be a way to solve that “blockage of the door” scenario should it occur.
EDIT: Or even use directly the second phase of the Lost Town fight, i.e. when starting a fight with Clark, the patrons will run away when approaching them (could be atmospheric). I think they already do that when in combat. And a few (like Loiz etc.) could attack instead as does the cop at the casino.

Sheriff Carpenter bug
http://www.filedropper.com/carpentersafe. You can see that Carpenter faces towards the safe. This can happen when using the cook to lure him out of the room and then run into him or stand in his path while in his office. This is in so far important, as it seems much more difficult to reach the safe, when he's standing like that (needs about 81% sneak it seems). And as the cook trick can't be repeated, this would be a tough situation.
(When he faces the desk it starts working with 41% sneak, I would say, or even 19% if treading carefully)
However, this is not a big deal as it only happens to players who mess with “Carpenter's walk” (i.e. when the player waits until the last second to run out of the room and collides with Carpenter.) So this bug is easily avoidable. In fact I'm not even sure it's worth mentioning, other than making players aware of it, and not to cause it.

Missing Gabriel trigger?
I went Gecko-Hunting with the tribe, but when the conclusion came I switched sides (the route was: “collect proof” to “Falber” to “Herman” to “Falber” and then “the attack on the tribe”). When I reported back to Falber I got 10.000 (another time 5000) caps. In both cases Gabriel did not ask for his cut. Is that correct? I mean he does ask for 1000 after attacking the hospital with the tribe, and he should probably ask for more when working for Falber. Is this caused by switching sides? Or does he never ask for a cut when working for Falber?
May check from here http://www.filedropper.com/slot290gabrielreward.
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Muttie

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Post Tue Jul 03, 2018 9:55 pm

Re: BUGS Swarming our position! Request suppressing fire

Muttie wrote:During the Rodriguez quest to face the raiders, I did get 35 points of karma (5 per kill), which put me below -50 and consequently Gabriel left me after that fight. This may need looking into as the Rodriguez quest line working against Gabriel is not optimal. And this is not similar to the first quest were I can solve it peacefully (positive karma) or kill the drunk (negative karma), as in the showdown with the raiders, there is no choice, only combat, (not even staying in the back does work, as it seems I get the points no matter who kills the raiders). I think it may be better if that fight would be karma neutral (i.e. the quest and killing those raiders). Especially as it's not easy to get the karma down to -50, other than skipping New Hope quests. I had to come up with a strategy (graves, ripping up letter etc.) to balance the karma gain from New Hope (I could have gotten more out of the necklace quest perhaps, but, still, it is a bit of a squeeze to pick up Gabriel quickly, and if then going directly in the Rodriguez quest (which can make sense) and running into a chunk of 35 points can be a game stopper. This Karma is also not necessary if accompanied by Lystra (e.g. before that quest one has an option (good/evil) and after it she refuses to help anyway). So I would suggest to consider making these Raiders Karma neutral (i.e. it's dealings among gangsters, and killing gangsters for gangsters, doesn't have to be a good deed). Also if this quest gives +35 Karma, there is basically not much quest line choice in Sedit other than going with Nicol (I think?). Everything else is positive for the most part. EDIT: Well, Lost Town has several negative Options, but still...

I wanted to add that the player also gets +5 karma for every Mexican killed by a Raider, which can make this Rodriguez quest rather Karma intensive.
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Muttie

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Post Mon Jul 16, 2018 9:49 pm

Re: BUGS Swarming our position! Request suppressing fire

Muttie wrote:Missing Gabriel trigger?I went Gecko-Hunting with the tribe, but when the conclusion came I switched sides (the route was: “collect proof” to “Falber” to “Herman” to “Falber” and then “the attack on the tribe”). When I reported back to Falber I got 10.000 (another time 5000) caps. In both cases Gabriel did not ask for his cut. Is that correct? I mean he does ask for 1000 after attacking the hospital with the tribe, and he should probably ask for more when working for Falber. Is this caused by switching sides? Or does he never ask for a cut when working for Falber? May check from here http://www.filedropper.com/slot290gabrielreward.

Apparently Gabriel does never ask for his cut when attacking the tribe. Is this an oversight? He could at least ask for 2000 caps. Or for 1500 from the 5000. And 3000 from the 10.000?
I kind of suspect this is a bit of a workaround as companions don't work so well in this fights (no Stun Batons, so they kill a lot of people unless someone works around that, either by switching sides (from the tribe to Falber) which has one find 6 Stun Batons or having high Melee and 2 Bonus Move which allows to pick off most enemies the companions shot at). However, most times companions are probably left behind and the player decides to hunt alone, I guess, especially as the fights are not that difficult. The mercenaries can usually handle it alone. And it may feel unfair if a player picks up Gabriel after the final battle and then suddenly has to pay him his share. Although Gabriel is evil, so why wouldn't he ask for his share, even if he did nothing...?
However, what about placing two dead mercenaries on the “Camp of wanderers” map, aka the first donor hunt, which is arguably the toughest (so two dead mercs may underline that) (perhaps they are from a previous attempt to attack?), and each corpse has an “empty” Stun Baton on him? This way a player could equip two companions for the remaining hunts and the final battle, which should not make a big difference difficulty wise (I think) but it would only make the fights faster.
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